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Friday
May042012

Svidomite Irredentism

What you see above are ethnographic maps compiled by nineteenth and early twentieth century Svidomites, showing the range of the settlement of the Ukrainian peoples. Look at them carefully so you understand what this post is about. The Svidomites have included in them areas they thought are settled by ethnic Ukrainians, even areas where people don't quite know that they happen to be ethnically Ukrainian or don't quite want to be. But they have not to worry, once their lands would be redeemed in the Greater Ukraine, they will have no choice but to accept their new identity...

The below is a translation from a blog post which is now several months old. It came out around the the Day of Consolidation, 21. January. (День соборності - Den' sobornosti is hard to do justice in translation but is also translated as Day of Unity), a state holiday which refers back to the signing of union treaty (the so called Akt Zluky) between the West Ukrainian People's Republic (ZUNR i.e Galicia) and Ukrainian People's Republic (UNR - i.e. lands beyond the Zbruch river) in 1919. I like calling it the 'paper union,' because it literally existed only on paper. And I always wondered what exactly they were uniting there, as West Ukrainians had by then lost most of their territory, including their capital Lvov to the Poles; and UNR's hold over its own territory was tenuous at best. But I shall leave these little details aside for some future post, they are history. The present is more interesting.

Here is what happened at a certain event held in Lvov on the Day of Consolidation/Unity/Whatever. Speaking at that event Rostislav Novozhenets from BYUT (Tymoshenko's party) uttered the following:

Speaking today about consolidation, we are mostly speaking about the unification of East and West, but that is not at all so, because the founders of the Akt (Zluky) have put into the meaning of consolidation: unification of all ethnically Ukrainian lands in a single Ukrainian state.  

Mr. Novozhenets underscored that the territory of Ukraine was 60% larger in 1919 than it is today. I'm not sure which Ukraine Novozhenets is talking about. It should be pointed out that it is rather difficult to make a cartographic representation of the chaos of the revolutionary years, and not to mention that territorial pretensions do not mean actual control of a territory.

Novozhenets continued:

We have lost, (note: I transliterate most of the name of these lands as they appear in the text, they have various names in different languages so I will try to provide a link to an English language wikipedia entry most approximating them, so you can have a rough idea what is being talked about) Lemkovshchina, Nadsyan'e, Kholmshchina, Podlyash'e, which went to Poland, Beresteishchina, Gomel'shchina, which went to Belarus, Starodubshchina, Eastern Slobozhanshchina, and finally Kuban' which has on 28 May 1918 joined Ukraine... (note: I really wonder what followed these three dots, suffice to say that all of these regions belong to Russia now, as for unification of Kuban' with Ukraine, attempts to that effect were made, but I have yet to hear about some definitive unification) We have lost Transnistria, Maramoroshchina, Southern Bukovina, which are today in Romania. (note: the territorial history of Transnistria is a bit more complicated, and it certainly isn't in Romania today, as for the other areas, local Eastern Slavic populations are very small, and that is why Stalin never made the effort to reunite them with Ukraine) This why today we do not have consolidation, we should make this our goal.        

Novozhenets' views were supported by the, also present at the event, leader of the paramilitary UNA-UNSO, Yuriy Shukhevych. Personally I knew about this guy Novozhenets and his irredentist ideas before, but given their extreme nature, I never assumed that he would be in Tymoshenko's party. I have placed him among the followers of the likes of Shukhevych. The author of the blog-post in question takes notice of this interesting phenomenon:

We should notice also... the constant desire of the locked-up Yulia and her party colleagues to take the place of Ukrainian Nazis and a long term alliance with real Nazis. Not to mention that demonstrating side by side with 'Svoboda' of Tyahnybok and the descendants of killers from OUN-UPA that call themselves UNA-UNSO has completely become a norm.     

PS: In connection with the last quote from the blog-post in question, I am reminded of Motyl's recent article that he published in KyivPost (and which I have touched on here). I quote the relevant bits:

By the same token, some Ukrainian democrats are willing to include Svoboda in an anti-regime electoral coalition, while others are not. Their dilemma is identical to that faced by Russian democrats, who have to decide whether an anti-Putin coalition should or should not have room for nationalists and communists. If you think collaborating with Regionnaire extremism is permissible, you have no choice but to permit collaboration with Communist or Svoboda extremism.

If you think all extremists are equally odious, you have no choice but to view cooperation with the Regionnaires as wrong as cooperation with the Communists or Svoboda. Unless, of course, you believe that extremists with power are less odious than extremists without power, in which case you won’t collaborate with Svoboda until they make it into office.

Fortunately, democrats may be able to sidestep these moral dilemmas—but only at this point in time—precisely because the Regionnaire regime is crumbling, while the Stalinists and Svoboda are likely to remain minority parties (or so I hope). The democrats don’t need any of them to regain power.

Certainly, these 'bona fide orange parties' (a term coined by Taras Kuzio) do not need VO 'Svoboda' to take office. But as I point out, these parties are not all that bona fide. The analogy with Russian liberals is not fitting because the Russian liberals need the nationalists and the reds to create formidable protest crowd, without them they are no more than a rabble. As we can see, the cooperation of BYUT with Svoboda is due to the fact that BYUT has some extremist membership. And furthermore, BYUT does not appear concerned by having people like Novozhenets in its ranks.   

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Reader Comments (49)

"without them they are no more than a rabble." - Russian liberals are a rabble even with the reds and the patriots. They are just rabble. A very well written article. Thank you

May 5, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterRoobit

'The Svidomites have included in them areas they thought are settled by ethnic Ukrainians, even areas where people don't quite know that they happen to be ethnically Ukrainian or don't quite want to be.'

with a little tweaking, it sounds a lot like the creation of today's Russia:

'The Russodomites have included in them areas they thought are settled by ethnic Russians, even areas where people don't quite know that they happen to be ethnically Russians or don't quite want to be.'

Wouldn't you say??....:-)

May 5, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

You're correct in pointing out that the map in depiction includes territories on the peripheries of today's Ukraine of a more mixed area. Today's scaled down version undoubtedly represents a country more heterogeneously whole in its composition.

Perhaps modern Russia should also shed itself of 60% of territories that it emcompasses, in order to present to the world a more ethnographic and whole Russian territory?? Perhaps the thought of more territorial autonomy in Russia iteself, represented in the newly won (lost? see
http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/vladimir-kara-murza/restored-elections-spell-new-trouble-kremlin) right of directly electing regional governors, is something clearly far from the minds of todays empire builders??.....

May 5, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

I meant 'homogenously' above, not 'heteregenously'. (I should never write anything before I've had my morning coffee first). :-)

May 5, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

A very interesting article Leos.

As a Greek I am very familiar with this sort of nationalism. In the Greece of my childhood though thankfully not today one could still find maps of what one might loosely call the Greater Greece that Greek ultra nationaliists wanted to create. This was essentially a revival of the Byzantine Empire with Constantinople as its capital and incorporating much of what is now Turkey. I understand that there were even some people who drew maps setting the boundaries as far as Jerusalem. This sort of insanity was semi official policy in Greece for much of the first century after Greek independence. It ended in military defeat and disaster in 1922.

May 5, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterAlexander Mercouris

Dear Leos,

On a variant note, what happens if a future Ukrainian government (conceivably even the Yanukovitch government) decides to enter the Russian led Customs Union and Eurasian Union. This does not seem impossible and one gets the impression that there would be a lot of people in the eastern and southern Ukraine and possibly even the central Ukraine who might support it. Conceivably they could even amount to an absolute majority, even a large majority, of the Ukrainian people.

How would the supporters of the doctrines that you discuss in this article react to these moves? Given the frankly immoderate way they express themselves about such matters and about Russia is there any danger that some of them might turn to violence? Is there any possibility of a secessionist movement emerging in the western Ukraine where these people seem to be strongest?

May 5, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterAlexander Mercouris

Alexander - the maps that Leos has disengenuously used in this article are also maps formed in the early 20th century. No serious, centrist political parties in Ukraine today are advocating a 'return' to these borders. His use of these maps, are only provided to help him promote his favorite 'Svidomite' bogeyman project. I fear that he may have 'Svidomites' sleeping under his bed at night! :-)

May 5, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

Dear Hack,

I understand the point about the maps which Leos makes in his post. However he quotes people who seem to think in a way not so far removed from the people who drew the maps. For example there is the person who complains about the territories the Ukraine has supposedly lost. He is not someone from the late nineteenth and early twenteth century but someone who appears to be active in Ukrainian politics today,

May 5, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterAlexander Mercouris

Alexander - and what, one cannot find any modern Greeks that opine for the lost 'greatness' and territory of bygone Greece today...??

And yet, I don't see you personally writing 2-3 pieces a week, trying to uncover this sinister plot (whether Greek or Ukrainian), to unravel the 'Russianess of Ukraine', as Leos is totally consumed with here! As I've pointed out before, thank God that Russia has its loyal legionaire here, ever ready to expose the evils of 'Svidomism' to the western, english speaking world! :-) :-) :-)

May 5, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

@ Hack

Where are those posts about Russianness of Ukraine. You mean, I presented the opinions of Karevin? Well, Karevin is a real existing person among others like him in Ukraine, is writing about them wrong? Or that post about searches in Ukrainian on yandex? Is posting that wrong, are we going to hide from reality?

The above post is about Mr. Novozhenets, not about the policies of BYUT as you can see. But then again, even Motyl happens to have a problem with VO 'Svoboda' and BYUT being seen side by side. I personally think that BYUT should do something about people like Novozhenets within its ranks.

@ AM

There is a perennial problem between Easterners and Westerners, because one group holding power means the other being disenfranchised. I personally do not see exacerbation of this perennial conflict that some alarmist commentators talk about. But you know how it is with these things, it does not mean that the conflict might not get worse in the future.

May 6, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

Leos - Novozhenets and his theories about a 'greater Ukraine' are total insignificant blather...kind of reminds me of the occasional nonsense one finds written by a certain New York based 'political analyst' about the relevance of Paul Skoropadsky to the current political mess in Ukraine.
These days, you can find most anything on the web, about any conceivable nutty subject you can imagine! :-)

May 6, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

Leos - this is not to say that your piece here is somewhat 'over precautionary'. I'm sure that the type of 'Svidomite' reporting that you primarily specialize in here at your blog is of great importance to english speaking foreign policy buffs all over the world! :-)

May 6, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

@ Hack

But Novozhenets is a representative of BYUT however his ideas might be insignificant.

May 6, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

Certainly you've heard the old axiom 'politics makes strange bedfellows'?...Even BYUT isn't immune, it seems, from this conundrum. Hopefully, due to great investigative reporting like your's, BYUT will be forced to clarify its position!.....Keep it up Leos! :-)

May 6, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

@ Hack

Since BYUT does not seem to hear Motyl and break contacts with VO 'Svoboda'. How much influence do you think I will have? I only blog, and you rant underneath, that's it.

May 6, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

'I only blog, and you rant underneath, that's it.'

Don't sell yourself so short Leos!

Indeed, I wake up daily and can't wait to check your blog, ever anticipating 'what new quagmire of Svidomite deceit has Tomicek uncovered today for the world to behold'??......Keep 'em coming! (you're the only one I know of who has devoted his life's work to this important and noble cause!)....

May 6, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

@ Hack

I could write a post about how a March of Millions in Moscow gathered 100,000 times less than a million, but I like writing about Svidomites.

May 6, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

'but I like writing about Svidomites.'

Indeed you do! Just looking over your last 20 entries here, 16 are devoted to anti-Svidomite themes. Some might consider this to be a sign of some sort of 'obsessive-compulsive' disorder. But we know better...Somebody has to alert the world to the destructive tendencies of these
'Ruski-Mir' malcontents! I feel that your work here is perhap somewhat underappreciated. Keep 'em coming Leos :-) :-)

May 6, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

Dear Hack,

Just to reassure you, there are plenty of Greeks who burble on endlessly about the need for Greece to recover its lost territories even in the face of a catastrophic economic crisis. Moreover if the exit polls on today's elections are true then the party that represents them, Golden Dawn, may have won as much 6% of the vote, which would be enough for it to enter the parliament. Let me inform you that Golden Dawn is far, far to the right of Marine Le Pen, who it would say is not really right wing at all. Indeed a number of its members have gone on record to express their admiration for Hitler and make no effort to conceal their racism and anti semitism.

As for responding to those people in the way that Leos does to the nationalists in the Ukraine, no I don't do it because I don't have the inclination or the time but others do for example my brother. It is very necessary that they do. Given the sort of opinions the people we are talking about have it would be very worrying and extremely dangerous if people like my brother didn't.

May 6, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterAlexander Mercouris

to Mr.Hack, Its quite funny that Leos choosed some ancient holy man, may be there is a parallel.

but for Leos -

man, You have never lived in Russia or Ukraine, Your talks here may seem legit, but really they just sux.
You`ve never worked.Your parents subsidies You. You dont know the value of money neither the value of opinions.

here look at it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lasjnzP-wpg

Leos you are not russian chap.

I uderstand Your ambtitions to be somehow immportant, but for real man, You are almost 40 no job, no real money, no real friends as I may conclude Alexander Mercouris is just another your fellowman from London getto of russian elite.
I see that when you hit 30, there was a need to find any purpose in your miserable life(rich child, with no real friends or even needs or point of interest)

In your quest russodomite or svidomites or how you call them here, is just useless shit. Try to convert to budhism and love for all living beings. World is changing and you still as your holly looser keep same attitude.

As a matter fact You may be more interested on some comments on the russian march that took place today and was demolished by the policy and MVD. As in fact more than 100K people were there in Moscow and other cities we can count up to millions. As I know you lived with a silver spoon in your mouth(Lenin) and there is no intention from your side to comment it as it is.
You can enjoy dinners at the most expensive restaurants in London, just bcs You are Leos the all mighty,who never worked for a single hour in his life and his father is just a protege for russian state owned companies.

try this Leos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gg0ZWRDCnI

still You are just a symptom of the illness that russian speaking world is going thru.

Some of your opinions lack basic ground and I still do not understand your direction , was it messed up in childhood or during later years of your life via drugs?

May 6, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterJewish Friend

@ AM

Actually, when one reads the economic policies of these neo-nazi (can't speak for Golden Dawn, but certainly can for our Czech Workers' party) parties in Europe, they often put local Communist Party to shame in how left-wing they are. I therefore like calling them radical nationalists without ever placing them anywhere on the spectrum of right and left.

May 6, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

@ Jewish Friend

I am not surprised why you do not have a real name, and why you are writing using a proxy. :-) I hit 30? When was that? Are you writing from the future too? Keep building that profile of mine. I'm a sure it is a worthwhile and edifying activity.

May 6, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

hey Leos ,

there is a place that your should thank me, othewise google add on will mess with you .

in Your profile or looser ? there is no need.

You`r just a leech that have money, otherwise your just a useless piss of shit.
never worked , have money from parents, never lived in post USSR world.
I guess you are proud of yourself, but the reality is somewhere far beyond yours simple understadning.

and far the most,

I am legion
I do not regret
I do not forget
So as a matter fact you Leos and your opinions just lack a basic ground of reasonable twist.

leos you are the upper lelevl of russian class, You never lived there but You can write a blog about helll what is going there, in my view


You just a lucker and foremost underachivement of your wishes.

May 6, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterJewish Friend

@ Jewish Friend

My opinions lack basic ground of reasonable twist, (whatever that is) and the reality is far beyond my simple understanding? Well, if that is so, what is forcing you from paying no heed to my opinion? After all, it's useless isn't it? :-)

May 6, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

Hey Leos,
be calm ,

as your friend is also jew ,

otherwise smoke more joints ,

for real this bullshit who can read, I do understand mr.Hack , for beginning of the day uou must have some positive energy. but thoose suckerz they are just loveable ,


Leos is just another mother fucker, of a lucker with money. I dont like them while the say what is not really treu.

May 6, 2012 | Unregistered Commenterjewish friend

@ Jewish Friend

You are a Jew? Are you the Anton Nosik? I mean, you fit the profile son. Broken and incoherent English, liberast, carries Jewish identity wherever he walks, some knowledge of internet (uses proxy, brags about other internet related topics), suggest I should convert to Buddhism (likes India?), has been trolled by your's truly (a reason to come here blazing with rage).

May 6, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

Leos, I do use other VPN for my own protection,


but still Your opinions lack something,


reasonable ground..

Your paid by russian money , so your excellent english is just a mere camouflage, of your incomepetence to gind a real job.

May 6, 2012 | Unregistered Commenterjewish friend

@ Jewish Friend

It is a more like a suspicion than an actual opinion. Do not pretend you are using VPN for your own protection, you do not need it here, you are using it because you are a trolling coward. Since it is hard to determine where you are located, I assume you are in Moscow, it must be very late over there, are you keeping yourself awake by drugs? Do you not have a real job to go to tomorrow?

May 6, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

I am psycho,

Hey look jewsih friend i willing to help you but stilll your opinions,are somehow let`s call it reall bullshit.


Mr.Hack has an overview. I really lack his knowledge and his loughness. ....

But still Leos you suck!s ther it is not enough money or in Kremlin they cocluded irruduclness of the blog. that even gooogle is incampale to locate.

I see some hack from russian initelligent in your blog,

so Leos be happy and enjoy money from your parents, if you try to use it . be aware of that your just a puppy

May 6, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterJewish friend

@ Jewish Friend

I google 'Anton Nosik' and the third site from the top is my own. Maybe you underestimate google. :-))

May 6, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

Jewish Friend - come back tomorrow for the 17th piece in a row exposing Svidomite wickedness....he never stops...he has too much to expose...If you truly live in Moscow, you can't live without this information! :-) :-)

May 6, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

@ Hack

I suspect Jewish Friend is not interested in those kinds of posts the way you are. ;-)

May 6, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

Alex - Tomicek's rants here often cross the line from legidimate exposure of crass fascistic activity. He likes to include respected historical figures like Taras Shevchenko, Mykhailo Hrushevsky, and really any Ukrainian who didn't begin his day by lying prostated in the direction of Moscow as a 'Svidomite'. His serious inbalance even includes several comments lauding the 'positive' contributions to modern science of Dr. Mengele:

'You are simply too ignorant, experimentation on humans did bring research results which are still used. ;-) It sounds creepy, and it is, but it does not make it any less true. I do not want to further explain stuff to ignorants'

There's more, see for yourself: http://www.austereinsomniac.info/blog/2012/1/7/the-party-of-regions-might-finally-live-up-to-its-promises.html

In his worldview, he's the enlightened one, and everybody who doen't buy whatever it is he is seliing that day, is the 'ignorant' one...:-)

May 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

@ Hack

You are an ignorant and an idiot who never addresses my claims with anything substantial. I really wonder when the last time was that you brought anything useful to the articles I post. I know that you might disagree, but at least disagree with some some substantial critique. Everybody can see what happened on that thread, you came and started deriding me, and unfortunately for you, I was right all the way there.

So quit trying!

May 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

Leos - 'Jewish Friend' seems to have uncovered a serious flaw in your 'resume'. Your seeming unemployed status. It would be incumbent for your handlers to help you develop some sort of 'profession' for you by now (you don't really be cut out for academia?). You may not yet be 40, but certainly you're getting closer to 30?

Perhpas I can help you? I think that a small 'electronic games business' would be an appropriate cover for you. It would offer you a legidimate business activity, one in which you already show some marked competency. Besides, it would also allow you and your brother an opportunity to bring a new fantasy/adventure game to the market: 'Russodomite Conquest of Svidomia', another area that you have a competency in. It's really not so far fetched??.....:-)

May 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

'but at least disagree with some some substantial critique.'

There's nothing to critique. You've done another admirable job in exposing another Svidomite in the possession of a late 19th century map of
'Greater Ukraine'. These 'Svidomite' scoundrels are so unlike their 'Rusodomite' brothers to the north, who have never been involved in empire building. Keep up the great work Leos! Bravo! Kudos! The world is safe for one more day! :-)

May 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

@ Hack

Actually I am at present writing a history project, I probably wouldn't be able to do it if I had a full time employment (which I never looked for). ;-) Wish me luck on that since if I am successful with it, I will have to stall this website. ;-) Which is what you want isn't it?

May 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

@ Hack

See, there is nothing to critique, so you and that other imbecile contemplate about my personal life. And I wonder how my threads always gather so many comments. :-))

May 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

Leos - Think back and re-read my comments. I've always encouraged you to finish your education. I don't wish for you to become another middle aged, self professed 'Independent Foreign Policy Analyst'.....:-)

May 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

Anton Nosik, you say Leos....I'm impressed. Your reading circle is indeed attracting all manner of 'fellow travellers'....Who next? ...Verka
Serduchka??....think of the world your contemeplaitng leaving behind for academia....Is it really worth it???....:-)

May 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

@ Hack

I do not know if that psychopath is really Anton Nosik, I just asked a question. After all, he uses a proxy so that he cannot be traced. He is paranoid, says he needs to be protected, I might be a Lublyanka operative or something. You idiots all think that... :-))

May 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

'I might be a Lublyanka operative or something.'

What 'something' do you have in mind??......

May 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

@ Hack

I don't know, something that would require our Jewish Friend to maintain anonymity.

May 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

Getting off topic here, I was wondering if you've ever read Alexei Miller's book 'The Ukrainian Question The Russian Empire and Nationalism in the 19th Century'? I've looked at its table of contents and have read some favorablw 'Ukrainian' reviews of the book, and it looks like a credible read.

To be perfectly honest, proably nore than what you've written, I find it extremely odd that you've never managed to read Plokhy's book. It's really quite well developed and written, and certainly is more infomative on the early ethnogensis of the Ukrainian nationality than anything you've been able to come up with here??....(Seriously!).....

May 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

@ Hack

You see, I can't quote every book that I have in my library here, nor do I happen to have the time to read them all. To me they are more like material that I consult when the need arises. I'm sure you can afford a more chilled out reading, I'm not so fortunate...

May 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

I mean, if you really boil down all of your craqckpot theories that you've esposed at this blog about the ethnogenesis of the Ukrainian nation,
this is really what one comes away with:

1) There really is no Ukrainian nation. The correct identifier for the people living in the artificailly contrived country on the world map today called 'Ukraine' are 'Little Russians'.

2) The 'Little Russians' are just a regional subset of a larger nation known as Russian.

3) The artificaially contrived Ukrainian nationality and it's artificailly contrived language were initiated as some sort of Polish/Austrian conspiracy in the 19th century designed to impede the unifiication of these two branches of the same Russian nation.

It's really a simplikstic set of theories, that indeed seem to have their origins in the library of the Lyubyanka school of anti-Ukrainian special opps! Let me guess Leos, you've been accepted to the Lyubjanka School of International Propoganda!!! :-) :-)

May 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

@ Hack

Have you read eighteenth and nineteenth century sources? These were written before that building on Lyublyanka was even built. I do not see that many of them talk about Ukrainians, unless you consider late nineteenth century works. Even so called great Ukrainians that made it on hryvna bills talk about Little Russia and Little Russians, not Ukrainians. I never said that the correct name for Ukrainians is Little Russians though. If you want to call yourself Ukrainian I'm fine with that completely, but I also point out that there are people who do not want to.

Most of the works written by nineteenth century authors from Ukraine, which are of rather patriotic nature, Istoriya Rusov for instance, Gogol's novels, most of what Shevchenko wrote, is in the Russian language, or in Russian with a regional twist.

Even the language of the village that appears in Shevchenko or earlier in Kotliarevsky is not exactly the correct Ukrainian language that we see today. What is interesting is that Russian of the time does not differ that much from Russian of today. Why is that, isn't because Ukrainian is an latter and artificial creation? Why is the Ukrainian language still not accepted in most parts of Ukraine? Why do people speak incorrect Surzhyk or Russian? I do not buy your theory about centuries of forcible Russification, that is what is simplistic here, not my views. I tell you why they do it, this was their language over many generations, long before that Galician invention called Ukrainian was forced upon them. You wanna argue with that?

Because you see, you happen to have no arguments against what I'm saying what so ever. You might fill my discussions with butt-hurt nationalist moaning, but that is all you have been capable of doing...

May 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

'I do not buy your theory about centuries of forcible Russification'

In the Russian EmpireSee also: Persecuted bandurists
In 1720 tsar Peter I of Russia issued a decree, in which he ordered expurgation of all Ukrainian linguistic elements in theological literature printed in Ukrainian typographical establishments [1]. Later Empress Catherine II of Russia issued a secret order to count Vyazemsky, the general-procuror of the Senate, in which she instructed him to institute a program of Russification for the provinces of Ukraine, Livonia and Finland, "using light-handed methods" [2]. In the opinion of Vladimir Vernadsky, Muscovy had a long standing policy to absorb Ukraine, and liquidate all basis for the local cultural life already in the 17th century [3]. In 1862 all Ukrainian Sunday schools were abolished and proscribed (at the time there were more than 100 of them in existence). In 1863 Petr Valuyev, the minister of internal affairs issued a so-called Valuev Circular in which he stated that the Ukrainian language never existed, doesn't exist, and cannot exist.[4] In 1867, tsar Alexander II of Russia issued the Ems Ukaz, a secret decree banning the use of the Ukrainian language in print, with the exception of reprinting of old documents.

[edit] Soviet periodAfter World War I, Ukrainian culture revived due to Bolshevik concessions in the early years of Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (until early-1930s) known as the policy of Korenization ("indigenisation"). During this time, the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church was tolerated as it suppressed the Russian Orthodox Church.

The times of restructuring of farming and the introduction of industrialization brought about a wide campaign against "nationalist deviation" which in Ukraine translated into an assault on the national political and cultural elite. The first wave of purges between 1929 and 1934 targeted the revolutionary generation of the party that in Ukraine included many supporters of Ukrainization. Whether the Soviet-inflicted famine known as the Holodomor was part of this campaign, is uncertain. The next 1936–1938 wave of political purges eliminated much of the new political generation that replaced those that perished in the first wave and halved the membership of the Ukrainian communist party. The purged Ukrainian political leadership was largely replaced by the cadre sent from Russia that was also largely "rotated" by Stalin's purges. As the policies of Ukrainisation were halted (1931) and replaced by massive Russification approximately four-fifths of the Ukrainian cultural elite, intellectuals, writers, artists and clergy, had been "eliminated", executed or imprisoned, in the following decade.[5] Mass arrests of the hierarchy and clergy of the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church culminated in the liquidation of the church in 1930.

During World War II, Russification was briefly halted when Axis forces largely occupied Ukraine. However, this did not result in any revival of Ukrainian culture.

Eventually, perestroika policies allowed the existence of a local independence movement called the Rukh, that helped expedite the break-up of the Soviet Union during the late 1980s.

[edit] In modern times
Political caricature. Russian language to Ukrainian: "Hey girl, move a little! You're troubling me!"In Ukraine, the current (as of 2009) government is opposed to making Russian a state language.[citation needed] However, despite official government policies, the Russian language is widely used on television[6] and the circulation of Russian language newspapers and magazines is high all over the country (particularly in the eastern and southern parts of Ukraine where Russian is the prevalent language). In Ukraine (and, to a lesser extent, Kazakhstan) there have been attempts to make the titular languages the main languages for the media and the press (this is referred to as derussification in those countries), but these have had limited success. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification_of_Ukraine

You can chose to go through life with eyes closed Leos, but that doesn't mean that others also have to. It appears that it's really you who tries to fill this blog with 'butt hurt' nationalist moaning, that only a RusSodomite can feel!!! Ouch! :-) :-) :-)

May 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterMr. Hack

@ Hack

What are those Ukrainian linguistic elements in that ecclesiastical literature of early eighteenth century? Could you provide the citation for number one. Because the only kind of element that I can find in literature like this is not Ukrainian but Polish. You will have to try very hard to find anything in Ukrainian in that period. I read Mazepa's original writing, doesn't look like Ukrainian. In fact, many Little Russian words made it to Russian language in sixteenth and eighteenth century, and Little Russians were not marginal in the formation of the Russian language. The Ems Ukaz and Valuev Circular came in the wake of Polish uprisings, and they did not ban all publications in the village vernacular, your quote above is highly misleading. What is funny, many of the journals in proto-Ukrainian had to close down not because of government pressure, but because nobody was buying them. Something you see today, many Ukrainian publications are on life support called government handouts. And finally, Soviets never abolished the Ukrainian project, they might have halted its more overt nature, that is forcing natural Russian speakers to speak a Galician invention.

Anyway, see my next post...

May 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

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