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Friday
Aug242012

Derangement  

Fun with nationalist orcs...

As you may have noticed, I have stopped using the word "Svidomite" in my posts. Although it is very popular with most of my readers, I decided not to introduce too many Slavic elements into my writing, I continue to use it in the comments. I now use the less stylish, but more comprehensible to uninitiated readers: "nationally over-conscious". That is what the word "Svidomite" means. It comes from the word "svidomyy" - meaning "conscious", or in this case "nationally conscious." From this some people have derived the word "Svidomism", which refers to a situation when national consciousness leads to mental derangement. A "Svidomite" therefore is somebody deranged by having too much national consciousness.

Don't get me wrong, I do not mind healthy Ukrainian identity expressed in language and local culture, I like it myself. Svidomism is a completely different from this however. Too much national consciousness can lead to some serious derangement, which in the case of Svidomites expresses itself in obsessive Russophobia, and deranged opinions about Ukraine and Ukrainians.

Take for instance this creature I found recently. I dubbed her since: "Marichka Kytopodibna" (Ukrainian: "Mary the Whale-like"; I found out about her through Anatoly Karlin), she is Ukrainian American, and she suffers from a double derangement, Svidomism and Feminism. However, she tweets more about Russia than Ukraine it appears. This is characteristic of these types, they cannot leave Russia, or the Russian element in Ukraine alone, and mind their own business.

But even more entertaining than Russophobes are proponents of the myth about the antiquity of Ukrainian people. These people mostly reside in Western Ukraine and in the nationalistic diaspora. Centuries of licking the boots of their Polish overlords has led to some serious hereditary brain damage. Some of these peasants, somehow came to the conclusion that they are the most ancient ethnos on the planet, among all of humanity, and the oldest of civilisations. Although looking at Galicia today, one is left wondering, what went wrong along the way?

I was watching videos on youtube, and found an interesting statement out of the tendency to portray Ukraine as very ancient. It was made by a user I have already mentioned here if you remember. I quote the derangement: 

Українська мова найблища з всіх мов до Санскриту

Translation of the derangement:

Ukrainian is the closest of all languages to Sanskrit

What follows is a list of some cognates Sanskrit shares with Ukrainian. This what this scholar from the University of Youtube calls proof. Very well, Professor Doofus: 

More information on the mantra here...

There are plenty of examples of Sanskrit around the internet, on youtube not withstanding, it is a sacred language of several religions emanating out of the Indian subcontinent, and is still used today. Anyone who wants to find examples of Sanskrit can find examples of it. I am relatively proficient in Ukrainian now, and unfortunately I do not understand anything out of anything out of the mantra above.

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Reader Comments (31)

I wonder if it would be disingenuous to label somebody who spends most of his waking hours trying to expose the fallacies of the 'Svidomite' mindset a 'Russodomite'. One who is constantly trying to disparage the idea of Ukrainian nationhood as not being something uniquely its own, not somehow a subset of Russian cultural identity?? Somebody who writes post after post trying to show that somehow mainstream Ukrainian cultural figures like Taras Shevchenko and Mykhailo Hrushevsky are somehow marginal figures not deserving the respect that the vast majority of Ukrainians afford them? Wouldn't such a person be deserving of being thought of as somebody with a serious 'mental derangement''??

'Too much [anti] national consciousness can lead to some serious derangement, which in the case of [Russodomitism] expresses itself in obsessive [Ukrainophobia] and deranged opinions about Ukraine and Ukrainians.'

The key words here in this paraphrasing are 'too much'. Don't you think that you're obsessive about this anti-Svidomite calling of your's Leos?
(just a wee bit, or are you really a paid professional being paid to print this stuff by the bulk??) :-) :-) :-)

August 24, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterCulture Kamph Hack

@ Hack

So what do you have to say about Ukrainian being the closest to Sanskrit of all languages? :-)))

August 24, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

I'm not a linguist, but there certainly is some evidence that the ancient cultures of India, Iran and Ukraine had some intersection. Kamiana Mohyla
near Melitopol is perhaps the oldest cultural staging point in all of Europe. Supposedly the script used on stone tablets there resembles a proto-Sumerian language. As you point out there are lists of words that share a commonality with Sanskrit. I don't know if Ukrainian has more of these common words than other modern languages??.......Do you know that it doesn't ???.........

August 24, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterCulture Kamph Hack

@ Hack

-The present discussion is about this particular statement:
"Українська мова найблища з всіх мов до Санскриту"

If Ukrainian is the closest, why is Sanskrit unintelligible to people proficient in Ukrainian? A wealth of cognates means nothing. I am sure that any Indo-Aryan language used by people who employ Sanskrit for liturgy is far closest, like Ukrainian and Russian are close to Church Slavonic.

-Sumerian is not even an Indo-European language, I smell another schizophrenic BS in your statement...

August 24, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

I never said that Sumerian is an Indo-European language. :-)

But I am grateful to you once again Leos, for being vigilant and spending more of your own valuable personal time insuring that the world is aware that the Sanskrit language is not inteelligible to the vast majority of Ukrainian langage speakers in the world. Bravo!! Keep it up (the world needs more of this kind of analysis!) :-) :-) :-)

August 24, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterCulture Kamph Hack

@ Hack

You lost it, did you? :-))

August 24, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

No Leos...but you have...long ago! :-)

'If Ukrainian is the closest, why is Sanskrit unintelligible to people proficient in Ukrainian?'

So very true...like I've said, you keep coming up with these kinds of important and useful insights...:-) :-) :-)

August 24, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterCulture Kamph Hack

@ Hack

Tell that to Svidomites! Oh sorry, you are one deranged Svidomite yourself. Nice svidosrach you are making here, as always. I declare this conversation over, you are an idiot...

August 24, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

Hei, Interesting post.
The idea of svidomism is vaguely familiar to me. Not in Ukraine but I am familiar with Bashkirs and Tatars in Russia and I’ve witnessed very similar phenomenon. Let’s say… apart from displays of healthy national and ethnic identity there is this trend of going way overboard and telling/believing mythical like, unimaginable things about own language and ancestry. I always found it endearing, amusing and sometimes disturbing (when coupled with Russophobia) but some of their theories are so disconnected from reality that I can’t help wondering how people actually come up with this stuff and believe this. Come to think of it, maybe I heard similar stories from Russians too… in any case it’s an interesting psychological phenomenon ;)

August 24, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterFalka

@ Falka

I am currently, by coincidence writing a post related to Tatars. Indeed, there are such deranged individuals in Russia too, but they rarely make it to officialdom as they do in Ukraine.

August 24, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

There may be lots of myths about language and ancestry in Russia, but the Indo-European urheimat really is the Russian Volga, so Sanskrit and other languages developed from the ones spoken there.

August 25, 2012 | Unregistered Commentercartman

@cartman

Apparently Indo-European languages have their roots in farming communities in Anatolia (Turkey), see http://www.sciencemag.org/content/337/6097/957

August 25, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterFalka

I see that 24 hours later, after Tomicek has so convincingly trumped any ocre theories of Ukrainian/Sanskrit language similarities, we've moved on to establishing the original Indo-European homeland (not Ukraine by the way, but in Russia, or was that in Turkey??.....) :-) :-)

August 25, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterCulture Kamph Hack

@ Hack

"Українська мова найблища з всіх мов до Санскриту" :-)))

August 25, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

As you point out there are lists of words that share a commonality with Sanskrit. I don't know if Ukrainian has more of these common words than other modern languages??.......Do you know that it doesn't ???.........:-) :-) :-)

August 25, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterCulture Kamph Hack

@ Hack

Can you prove that it does? :-))

August 25, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

Look again Leos....I'm not the one writing this piece, trying to disparage the idea that '"Українська мова найблища з всіх мов до Санскриту"

So far, you've come up with 'zip'.............

August 25, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterCulture Kamph Hack

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis

Hack, could the chariot count as a Russian invention?

August 25, 2012 | Unregistered Commentercartman

In case you failed to notice, it's you who'se written this post, trying to lambast the idea that '"Українська мова найблища з всіх мов до Санскриту" So far you've come up with 'zilch' :-)

August 25, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterCulture Kamph Hack

What's the matter Leos, run out of gas today?? Or, as in true Russodomite fashion, have you declared this one over too??

' I declare this conversation over'

(don't forget to take off your shoe and slam it against the table for extra emphasis!!!) :-) :-) :-) :-)

August 25, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterCulture Kamph Hack

Take for instance this creature I found recently. I dubbed her since: "Marichka Kytopodibna" (Ukrainian: "Mary the Whale-like"; I found out about her through Anatoly Karlin), she is Ukrainian American, and she suffers from a double derangement, Svidomism and Feminism.

It's more like a triple or quadruple derangement: Add fat apologetics, the unfathomable preoccupaton with The Hunger Games, etc, etc.

***

I agree the Svidomite view of Ukrainian history is bizarre.

World’s Oldest House
The oldest house in the world is this 15,000 year old one made of mammoth bones found at Mezhirich near Kiev in Ukraine. It was probably covered with mammoth hides. Cupid uses the Scythian bow from Ukraine to shoot his arrows of love (New York Times). The world’s first known horseman rode in Dereivka, central Ukraine, 6,000 years ago. This Scythian on a galloping horse is a 4th century B.C. gold plaque found in Kul Oba (Kerch), Ukraine. Pants or trousers, were probably invented about 6,000 years ago by the horsemen on the Steppes of Ukraine. Pants were the typical dress of the Scythian warriors of ancient Scythia-Ukraine 2,600 years ago. Pants are particularly suited to a northern climate and to horsemen which places the logical origin on the steppes or prairies of Eastern Europe, or Ukraine. They are depicted on ancient gold jewelry and vases found in Ukrainian burial mounds (kurgans). Some ancient Greeks, such as Hippocrates, thought poorly of the pants worn by the Ukrainian Scythians. James and Thorpe mention pants were popular among many nations but do not suggest the possible location of the origin of them.

The mammoths recognized Ukraine 15,000 years ago.

August 25, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterAK

The Aryan invaders of India who formed the upper castes did originally come from the Black Sea origin I believe, although they passed through Central Asia well beforehand.

The Indians have a high prevalence of the R1a gene which is most prevalent elsewhere in Slavic Eastern Europe. But not really Ukraine specifically.
Here is a map: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__SYftXoZZmk/TAkH3iD18TI/AAAAAAAAAJo/MYSmuSuvs0k/s1600/R1a1a%2BUnderhill.jpg

August 25, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterAK

@ Hack

Why do I need to prove anything, there are plenty of examples of Sanskrit around the internet, and it isn't anything like Ukrainian. I really do not get how you can defend the stupidity of "Українська мова найблища з всіх мов до Санскриту"? What's your motivation? Do you actually believe that kind of nonsense?

August 26, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

If somebody finds it interesting that there are more comon words between Sanskrit and Ukrainian (or Slovenian or old Bohemian) than other languages, then this is of interest, is it not?? As I've said twice already above:

'As you point out there are lists of words that share a commonality with Sanskrit. I don't know if Ukrainian has more of these common words than other modern languages??.......Do you know that it doesn't ???.

The fact that ancient Aryan people's migrated probably first through Ukrainian lands and then into the rest of Europe is not really all that contorversial. One of the most respected archaeologists to study 'Aryanism', the Lithuanian Maria Gimbutas hypothesized so with her 'Kurgan' theories. I emphasize once again, Kamyana Mohyla is the oldest known European stone built edifice.

Leos, are any other European languages at all more like Sanskrit than Ukrainian??......(what I mean to say is, don't all European languages, except the Finno-Ugric ones, contain some elements of Sanskrit...what's the big deal here anyway???)

August 26, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterArchaeological Hack

Question: Are modern day Italians allowed to view Roman or even the older Etruscan civilization as somehow being their own?? Or are only Ukrainians guilty of showing an interest in old civilizational structures that once inhabited their current lands??......

August 26, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterArchaeological Hack

@ Hack

Who said anything about showing interest in old pre-historic civilisations in Ukraine? Have you ever seen me rail against archaeologists digging up Trypillian culture? No you haven't, because I am too smart for that. But what you see is that I post about outlandish assertions. I do not say the oldest stone building was not in Ukraine, in fact that statement is far more believable than "Українська мова найблища з всіх мов до Санскриту".

Your comparison with Italians is lame, a cursory look at Latin or any other recorded old Italic language reveals that they are related to contemporary languages spoken on the peninsula.

August 26, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

Then ride on Leos...your quest to defrock the Svidomites and regather them to the modern Russian world is a just and worthwhile calling...keep up this valuable and necessary work!!! (you're a real modern day Russophile superstar phenomena)....:-)

August 26, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterArchaeological Hack

@ Hack

I'm glad you like it.

August 27, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

I not only like it, I find it truly invaluable! Who else but you Leos, ensures that the western english speaking world is not somehow infected by this serious subterfuge... I am grateful to you once again Leos, for being vigilant and spending more of your own valuable personal time insuring that the world is aware that the Sanskrit language is not intelligible to the vast majority of Ukrainian langage speakers in the world. Bravo!! Keep it up (the world needs more of this kind of analysis!) :-)

August 27, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterArchaeological Hack

Dear Leos,

Forgive my curiosity but where does the expression "Svidomite" actually come from? "Sovok" I understand but the origins of "Svidomite" puzzle me.

On an amusing note I once had a conversation in London with an Indian politician who was also a Brahmin and a Sanskrit scholar. That would have been in the 1980s. He told me the European language Sanskrit most closely resembles is Russian!

September 7, 2012 | Unregistered CommenterAlexander Mercouris

@ AM

The origins of Svidomite I have explained rather vaguely above:

"It comes from the word "svidomyy" - meaning "conscious", or in this case "nationally conscious." From this some people have derived the word "Svidomism", which refers to a situation when national consciousness leads to mental derangement. A "Svidomite" therefore is somebody deranged by having too much national consciousness."

Svidomyy is a Ukrainian word, Russian is soznatel'nyy. Svidomism refers to when there is too much of national consciousness. You would have to get into Ukrainian blogosphere to understand the madness we are talking about better. It is really amusing but requires knowledge of Russian and Ukrainian.I will certainly post more examples of this in the future...

September 7, 2012 | Registered CommenterLeoš Tomíček

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